Everything That Is Happening Has Already Happened and Will Happen Again
It has already happened!
- Thread starter timejim
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Cosmos is as a giant movie reel. The Creator has already made everything and all the events that are to occur. Each of our lives are in the reel. The reel runs at a set speed (time frames). What will happen in your life, say next yr, is already on the reel, you just haven't arrived at that point still. Phone call information technology destiny or whatever. The Creator tin look backward or forward in the reel every bit HE pleases. HE can stop the reel if so desired. Our lives, from nascence till expiry are already fully contained inside the reel. The reel runs at the fix speed (fourth dimension) of the universe, equally far every bit we are concerned. Everything you practise throughout every moment of every day is already contained within the reel of life. Everything.
Answers and Replies
I find these ideas beautiful, I am a piddling sad because I have lilliputian or no time to dedicate to these matters, but I guess that this is already in the reels so... no news ;)
Cheers from Rome
br
In that location is a biblical hint that this is the instance, if yous put stock in the Bible. In Eclesiates information technology says:Originally posted by timejim
Think of Creation this way. Everything that is going to occur has already occurred.
"That which hath been, is at present. That which is to be, hath already been, and God requireth the past".
I interpret that this way:
"That which hath been, is now" would mean that the past still exists, on tape or recording, as yous say, because the first fourth dimension it was lived through was merely the first playing of the tape.
"That which is to be, hath already been" would mean the events of the future have already been experienced past those ahead of u.s. along the tape; our tomorrow is their past.
"...and God requireth the past", would mean that, since by, present, and time to come are all actually the past, and considering God "requireth" the by, then we can do aught to change the past, present or time to come. We are observers, merely.
It seems to be an assertion to the result that we don't know what the futurity volition bring. Certainly true in my case.Originally posted past Monique
How does one interpret "Tomorrow has not yet come",
I automatically first singing the side by side song even though the 1 playing has not ended however, Even if I didn't listen to the tape in years. I also however go on singing the chronologically next song when the music is played in random fasion, making the conditioning even more apparent.
This would debate confronting the giant pic reel. At to the lowest degree for me it would, since I don't become clear visions of the day to come
Originally posted past Monique
How does one interpret "Tomorrow has not however come up",
...summing with your previous post...
Originally posted by Monique
So I can just stay dwelling house from work tomorrow?
...I would say it's not fourth dimension for you to stay at domicile yet!!
...but I approximate this is not fun, and I would add that sometimes the fact that there is a tape or whatsoever does not mean that nosotros are immune to play it, or even to take access to it... What happens, I gauge, is that nosotros are all, each one in her/his own fashion, to find if there is such a tape or not...
...simply it's too much of philosophy, too bad I have to get out the identify...
Prissy (known or unknown) future to anybody!!
br
My theory is that the consciousness that is "you" only gets ane laissez passer over the tape. Ahead and behind there are an infinity of consciousnesses all experiencing the "Monique" thread of the larger tape of life. No i of these consciousnesses has ever experienced the tape earlier.Originally posted past Monique
If you mind to a tape that has been played several times, do y'all know which vocal is going to be next?
Originally posted past Monique
If you listen to a tape that has been played several times, exercise y'all know which song is going to be next?I automatically start singing the next song even though the i playing has not ended withal, Even if I didn't mind to the tape in years. I likewise still keep singing the chronologically next song when the music is played in random fasion, making the conditioning even more apparent.
This would argue against the giant movie reel. At least for me it would, since I don't get clear visions of the day to come
No information technology doesn't, the reel has always been at that place. What I was proverb is that everything, even our thoughts and actions, is on the reel. However, our Vanity is such that nosotros think nosotros are in control of everything.
You say this like information technology'due south our fault. Isn't our vanity on the reel, likewise? I know mine is.Originally posted by timejim
However, our Vanity is such that we call back we are in control of everything.
No one hither believes in complimentary will?
What is the reel; the heed of God? We are God's dream?
When a moth is drawn to a light, it is destiny and not biological science?
The purpose of this movie is only to amuse the creator?
Finally, how can I change the record? I desire the 1 where I'k the unopposed and love emperor of the world. In this 1 I'thousand but emperor of my role…and I'm the only i in the office!
One reason (simply not the just ane) is the for everything to be predestined, there MUST exist a God who created it all.
What purpose would God accept for creating an beingness that has every infinitesimal gene (down to where a particular grit mote will land when it is freed from the tornado and where that dust mote originally came from) already planned out and he knows the ending?
It is absurd and pointless, non just for us, only for God.
Too, if information technology is all planned out from the beginning why create the very real illusion of free will for the actors in the play?
Why not just have automatons running through the motions?
And it's non similar he does it merely to screw with our emotions, considering all of them would be predetermined as well.
Even this mail would be.
It's empty-headed to think in that location is no such matter as gratis will, and serves no terminate merely to limit who you are and take your ability for granted.
I don't but into it.
Not a take chances.
In one case the billiard balls accept been hit in that location'due south only ane possible event. The assurance have no ability to change the physics behind their motion.
There was an episode of the X-Files about this. In the cease Scully decided that free will consisted of the ability to control our attitudes and reactions and intentions even if we can't control the actual events on the "reel". So she would disagree with timejim's assertion that even our thoughts are predestined.
Anyhow, predestination, past ways of cosmic movie reel or biliard brawl event or any machinery you propose, is a philosopical trouble that has cropped upward over and over over again in every concievable form throughout the history of Homo'due south thinking. The best advise I ever heard was from a zen buddhist author who said something to the effect that, if you think your life is a railroad train running on tracks, don't stare down at the tracks running by. It volition just make y'all dizzy. Look around and savour the wonderful scenery, instead.
I really used billiards in my caption of free volition fairly recently, simply I can't call up if I posted it here.
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In the book I am currently working on I relate the Determinism/Complimentary Will question to a game of pool (8-ball).
The options you have are strictly limited by:
one.) the position of the cue brawl
ii.) the position of all the other balls on the table
3.) where your strengths and weaknesses lie in your pool skills
iv.) whether you are playing loftier or low assurance
Ane and two are dependent upon:
a.) every shot made in the game upwardly to that indicate
b.) the idiocyncracies of the table (such equally: felt thickness, type and wear; dynamics of the rails; balance of the tabular array; etc)
c.) the skills of all the payers on the table
d.) coincidences not straight related to the game (such as: what kind of day the players had; how many drinks they had; etc)
Three is dependent upon far too many things to list.
Four is dependent upon the first ball sunk on the table, which not just relies upon the skills of (at least one of) the players, and luck (for lack of a better discussion). The results of the break are part skill and function luck, and the money toss (if in that location was one) for the break was luck.
Now, it is your plow to shoot, and all of these factors have determined the situation yous currently find yourself in.
Your options are limited, but you Exercise take options.
At this bespeak, those who deny free volition will say that what shot you take is determined by your perception of the table, how y'all take been playing that twenty-four hours, your perception of your skills, the type of person you are (like going for glory shots, or taking a prophylactic), even what your favorite color is.
My view is that yous have this tabular array in front of yous, you wait at it and encounter all your options (y'all may miss a few), and based on that (influenced, to unlike degrees, past all the things in the above paragraph) y'all make a conclusion regarding what course of action you will take.
After that, your pool skills, mood, blood achohol level, luck, etc will all determine the outcome of that detail shot, so y'all go dorsum up to the pinnacle again.
Does that brand whatsoever sense?
What made you choose that pair?
It could seem as uncomplicated as, "They were the closest clean pair when I woke up."
But and then you take to look at why they were the colsest make clean pair...
What fabricated you decide to wear all the other ones that are not dirty?
Why did you lot non do laundry last dark?
Why did you lot buy those socks in the first identify?
Did y'all get to that store with the specific purpose, or did you remember when you saw them on display?
Why did Bill (the merchandizing managing director) decide to place them there on display?
What if Bill was out sick that day?
Why does Beak piece of work at Walmart, anyway?
Something as unproblematic equally what socks you are wearing could be traced back to a million (bourgeois) points of decision made by yourself and people you take never met, some of them are not fifty-fifty live anymore.
It was your laziness that fabricated you choose the closest clean pair.
There are a million reasons why you are lazy.
Nonetheless, you lot DO have the choice to act against your typical nature, and make up one's mind, "I desire to wear red socks today, only because I want to." and dig in your sock drawer to notice you lot red socks to vesture.
Once again, whatever fabricated you lot determine that you desire to wear red socks could accept a million points of decision behind information technology, but you were not compelled to article of clothing them.
Any choice you brand can be traced back through the matrix of all of our interconnected decisions, even so, at that indicate of deciding what to habiliment, y'all accept a nearly limitless number of ways to become, and that option, in turn, will outcome everything else down the line.
Everything anyone e'er does is influenced (non determined, influenced) by prior choices made.
Likewise, every choice you make will influence choices down the line.
(Edited for cleaner formatting)
I've pondered, that, if it were possible to step exterior of our lives to see the future, wouldn't this found a freeing of ourselves from life'due south railroad tracks? But information technology occured to me that this incident would but exist a part of a greater railroad track, constructed with a precipitous bend, such that we were predestined to see what was coming in this example.
Laziness verses choice making is a unlike issue. You, as a more energetic billiard ball, may indeed strike 1 more than at rest, imparting it with the notion to make more than choices, but was it costless to do that before your imput?
Didn't you ever encounter that episode of Cheers where Cliff Claven got hit in the head with a puddle ball? Frazier had to take him to the emergency room.Originally posted by one_raven
What reason is in that location to believe that we have no choice as to what actions we will take subsequently being struck past a billiard ball?
Originally posted past one_raven
What reason is there to believe that we have no pick equally to what actions we will take after being struck by a billiard ball?
I don't think the statement is that you exercise not in some sense select from a number of alternative plans. The argument is that your pick of whatever particular plan y'all picked could not have been made whatever other style, given all the conditions leading upwardly to that point.
I call back Zooby put it very eloquently: "One time the billiard balls have been hit at that place's only one possible issue. The assurance have no power to change the physics behind their motion."
Likewise, we have no power to change the physics behind our own neural activeness, which is the circuitous physical event underlying our ain choices.
I recall role of what makes the issue of costless will so contentious is that our collective self-image hangs in the balance. If nosotros take that we do not have gratis volition, we may seem to exist reduced to mindless puppets at the whims of deterministic physics. Still, if I accept my encephalon as my own (belonging to me), then I don't see any problem in seeing the activities of my brain as belonging to me equally well, regardless of whatsoever it is that ultimately gives it its causal powers. And so, in essense, I call back one can refute free volition and all the same retain a perfectly full sense of personal bureau. The central is really how one identifies the self.
Originally posted by one_raven
What pair of socks are y'all wearing?
What made yous choose that pair?
It could seem equally simple every bit, "They were the closest clean pair when I woke up."
But and so you accept to wait at why they were the colsest clean pair...
What made you lot decide to wear all the other ones that are non muddy?
Why did you not do laundry last night?
Why did you buy those socks in the first place?
Did you go to that store with the specific purpose, or did you remember when you saw them on display?
Why did Pecker (the merchandizing manager) make up one's mind to place them there on display?
What if Neb was out sick that mean solar day?
Why does Bill work at Walmart, anyway?
Something equally uncomplicated every bit what socks you are wearing could be traced back to a million (bourgeois) points of conclusion fabricated by yourself and people you have never met, some of them are not even alive anymore.
It was your laziness that made you choose the closest make clean pair.
There are a million reasons why y'all are lazy.
However, you Practice have the option to act confronting your typical nature, and make up one's mind, "I want to wear cerise socks today, just because I want to." and dig in your sock drawer to find you lot red socks to wear.
Again, whatsoever made you determine that you want to wear red socks could have a million points of determination behind it, merely y'all were not compelled to wear them.
Any option you lot brand can be traced dorsum through the matrix of all of our interconnected decisions, even so, at that bespeak of deciding what to wear, you accept a virtually limitless number of means to go, and that pick, in plow, will effect everything else downwardly the line.Everything anyone ever does is influenced (not determined, influenced) by prior choices made.
Besides, every choice you make will influence choices down the line.(Edited for cleaner formatting)
Perhaps, just maybe, what we think of every bit costless will is actually the creator re-arranging the pieces in his tabular array top game. Say, the creator has a universe on his table top that he created. He is constantly changing the scenery and playing pieces for his entertainment. Perchance he has other "allowed" players at the tabular array, rolling dice to see who's turn is adjacent, playing past a fixed set of rules, say like Monopoly. Just suppose.
I am going to use the Bible for reference because information technology is the religious work I am familiar with. There are many points that back up both points of view in the Bible. The strongest argument I have constitute against predestination is that the Bible specifically says that God hardened Pharoah'southward eye to follow the Jews leaving Egypt. Why mention a specific fourth dimension that God intervenes in the thoughts of men and women if he is controlling all the thoughts of men and women? Still, my Dad, who believes in predestination, tin can name dozens of verses to support his view.
And then what if say Zoobyshoe's life has been predestined, with God seeing the time to come and knowing all that volition happen around him, just say one_raven has complimentary will. Could this work?
Originally posted by Artman
What if it'due south both?I am going to utilize the Bible for reference considering it is the religious work I am familiar with. There are many points that support both points of view in the Bible. The strongest statement I accept plant against predestination is that the Bible specifically says that God hardened Pharoah'due south heart to follow the Jews leaving Egypt. Why mention a specific time that God intervenes in the thoughts of men and women if he is decision-making all the thoughts of men and women? However, my Dad, who believes in predestination, tin can name dozens of verses to support his view.
And then what if say Zoobyshoe'south life has been predestined, with God seeing the time to come and knowing all that will happen effectually him, but say one_raven has free will. Could this work?
Probably. I think somewhere in the Bible information technology says, "goose egg happens that God doesn't allow". Also, to everything there is a flavour.
Lol, I remember that episode, every morning Mulder wakes up bumping his toe :POriginally posted by zoobyshoe
In that location was an episode of the X-Files about this. In the end Scully decided that costless will consisted of the ability to command our attitudes and reactions and intentions fifty-fifty if we tin't control the actual events on the "reel". So she would disagree with timejim's assertion that even our thoughts are predestined.
There was also an episode on Startrek, where the crew was trapped in a fourth dimension loop, or footing grunter day
Originally posted by Monique
Lol, I recall that episode, every morning Mulder wakes up bumping his toe :PAt that place was also an episode on Startrek, where the crew was trapped in a fourth dimension loop, or ground squealer day
Scully never did quite get information technology!
Originally posted by hypnagogue
I think Zooby put it very eloquently: "In one case the billiard balls take been hit in that location'southward only one possible outcome. The balls accept no power to modify the physics behind their motion."
Where I differ is that I don't see us as balls, but players.
Originally posted by one_raven
Where I differ is that I don't come across us equally balls, but players.
But the point is nosotros work on the same principles as those billiard balls. We can change our minds, but we can't modify the physical laws that underlie that process.
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If we can change our minds then we can change our path, our destiny
Kirk
Genetics -- If your parents didn't have any children you lot probably won't either.
As the Prime Mover is eternal everything is in the present. What one would telephone call REAL Time.
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